Батьер или Боуэн

[MarcuS 0]

Брюс - СГ

Паркер, Джинобили - Брюс, Тим - Курт (оберто). Какой тут Боуэн второй номер? Третий чистой воды

Изменено 18.03.2008 18:06 пользователем Артем Панченко

[Glen_41 0]

мой голос разбил равенство и перенёс батыра на одну позицию вперед=). Терпеть не могу боуэна, как говорил Бугай на улице за такую игру его бы отмудохали по полной

[t-mac9 0]

2Sanchoys,(gilles)

я не наначинал расписывать про ол-эраунд и понимаю о чём тема-просто ответил на этот аргумент...

да и причем тогда что дают по достижениям??

да и ваще-ты хоть постоянно и со смайликом-но достал уже везде своего Принса лепить))

тут и Боуэн,и Батье имхо гораздо лучше...

а у тебя как тема про защиту-ПРИНС ЛУЧШИЙ))

[old-timer 6]

t-mac9

точно так же как нам Батье)))

[t-mac9 0]

old-timer

не,ну нефига...

мне просто обидно что он недооценённый,причем реально оболденный защитник,как персональщик,так и подстраховщик!

но я нигде неговорю как он про Принса,что наш Бэт лучше!))

[old-timer 6]

Но ведь наш Бэт все равно лучший) Да и не скажу что он не дооцененый, глянь на результаты голосилки.

[t-mac9 0]

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Shane Battier's work doesn't always show up in the box scores, but he's a big reason why the Houston Rockets now have the second-longest winning streak in NBA history and are in first place in the West.

HOUSTON -- Yes, the Rockets are missing their All-Star center, and yes, at times their offense can be hard on the eyes.

But they're winning, and winning big. And though there are many reasons for this, the one overwhelming cause is that they're a superior defensive team. That's been the case all season, but the Rockets have redoubled their efforts during the amazing 22-game winning streak that's propelled them from 10th to first in the West.

Back on New Year's Day, when the Rockets were a sub-.500 team that seemed headed for a disappointing finish in the lottery, Houston ranked fifth in the league in defensive efficiency at 99.7 -- very solid, but hardly awe-inspiring.

At the start of the streak that figure had improved only slightly to 99.6, although it was up to second in the league because some other teams had slipped.

And now? Houston's defensive efficiency mark has jumped to 98.1, putting the Rockets far in front of the every team except the Boston Celtics, who remain No. 1 by a mile. During the 22-game win streak, their numbers have been even better -- Houston is allowing just 95.1 points per 100 opponent possessions.

That figure is stunning, better than even Boston's league-leading 95.8 mark for the season. And as it happens, these two elite defensive squads face each other Tuesday night in a meeting of the first-place teams in each conference.

There's a degree of familiarity here, as well. Tom Thibodeau, the Rockets' top assistant last season under then-Houston coach Jeff Van Gundy, is now the Celtics' top assistant under Boston coach Doc Rivers, and has imported most of his defensive principles to Boston.

That the Rockets were a top-notch defensive team under Van Gundy a year ago is no surprise -- he's one of the best defensive coaches of all time, and his teams have ranked in the top five in field-goal percentage defense every season he's coached. Similarly, nobody is shocked that his former top lieutenant, Thibodeau, has had so much success in Boston

The surprise is that Houston has maintained such solid results under Rick Adelman, whom most perceive as a more offensive-minded coach.

"We felt he was underrated defensively," said Rockets general manager Daryl Morey. "He's had top-five defenses in the league; if we finish [in the top five], it will be five times [for Adelman]."

Adelman does it with a approach that is very different than Van Gundy's, showing there are multiple ways to succeed defensively.

"They bring a defensive philosophy that's very situational," said Morey, who praises assistants Elston Turner and T.R. Dunn along with Adelman as reasons for his team's defensive success. "It's very game-plan focused, where each night they come in with a different approach."

The anchor of that defense, unquestionably, is Shane Battier. The 6-8 forward isn't as quick as San Antonio's Bruce Bowen or as physical as Ron Artest. But he's both relentless and incredibly smart, and the combination makes him as tough to score against as any other wing player in the league.

Sunday he proved why once again, harassing Kobe Bryant into an 11-for-33 night that included just four free-throw attempts and two assists. It was the key to Houston's 104-92 win over the Lakers that ran its unreal winning streak to 22.

The amazing part is that Battier accomplished this without double-team help; in fact, he did it without much assistance at all from the frontcourt. Adelman went small most of the second half to keep a red-hot Bobby Jackson on the floor, so there wasn't a Mt. Mutombo -- or even a Chuck Hayes -- to act as a backstop if Battier got beat.

"Shane was incredible," said Adelman. "He just made him work the whole game. [bryant]'s such a tough, tough handle, but Shane just stayed with him the whole game."

Mindful of the matchup, Adelman played Battier a season-high 46 minutes. "I told Shane you're gonna be there as long as Kobe is."

"[battier]'s a smart defender," said Bryant Saturday at the Lakers' practice. "He's a position defender. He obviously does his homework. He's not going to go out there and rely on his athletic ability, he'll try to out-think his guys, see what spots they like on the floor and try to take them away."

As Sunday showed, Battier is very, very good at doing just that. Yet unbelievably, he has never made the NBA's All-Defense team, a fact that had teammate Tracy McGrady up in arms after the game.

"If Shane Battier is not on the All-Defense team, I'm protesting," said McGrady. "I'm boycotting the All-Defense team. Seriously, because this guy, he did a phenomenal job on the best scorer in our league. That's what he brings to us every night, he guards the opponent's best player and he gives them hell."

Said Battier: "I'm not going to campaign for myself; I think that's a little tacky. But I pride myself on my defense, [and] I prepare diligently whether I'm playing a Kobe Bryant or playing a guy who's a 10-point scorer."

Watching him in person three straight games has given me a new appreciation for just how effective Battier's technique is. He told me after the Atlanta game -- after he hounded Joe Johnson into a 9-for-25 nightmare -- that the key to playing any good scorer is to try to make him a 2-point jump shooter. The idea is to take away the high-efficiency chances -- layups, free throws and 3-pointers -- and then contest the long 2-pointers as hard as you can.

On that last item, he's perhaps as good as any player in the league, because he has a very clever move he uses to contest jump shots.

Nearly every other defensive player in the league reaches his hand up toward the ball's trajectory, hoping in vain to get a piece of the shot. Battier, in contrast, reaches his hand out -- right toward the opponent's head or preferably to a spot just above it. He has almost no chance of blocking the shot this way, because a man shooting over or behind his head will get it over Battier's hand every time. But it's very difficult for the opponent to focus on the rim when there's a big paw blocking his line of sight.

"I was taught at a young age to contest every shot," said Battier. "If you can't block it, at least get a hand in the face or get your hand around the ball just to give the [shooter] something to think about. When I'm shooting I know I don't like when the defender has a hand around my face or the ball, so I do what every elementary school coach tells you. ... I try to be a little annoying and get a hand in the face."

And now, Battier awaits his next challenge, against Boston's Paul Pierce. It's a different type of assignment for Battier because Pierce is a much more physical player. Although, at 6-8, Battier's one of the league's bigger wings, Rocket insiders say it's actually the physical players that give him more problems as a defender.

"[Pierce] presents different situations," said Battier. "You have to understand angles a little differently, you have to do your work a little earlier against the more physical guys. When I go to the gym I'll go over my scouting plan and get my own little game plan formulated."

And might Battier have a little extra motivation on Tuesday, to perhaps show Thibodeau some of the new tricks he's learned?

"No, [he] has taught me a lot," said Battier. "I have nothing that man doesn't know already."

Here's one thing we do know: The battle of the league's top two defenses won't be pretty. If you want that, check back in for the next Golden State-Phoenix game.

Instead, expect it to be hard fought -- nobody in the league has played more fiercely than these two teams. And expect it to be raucous -- nothing has been more refreshing than seeing Houston's normally tepid home crowd roar like crazy during this win streak.

But above all, expect points to be very hard to come by. These two clubs wouldn't have it any other way.

[Gilles 2]

Паркер, Джинобили - Брюс, Тим - Курт (оберто). Какой тут Боуэн второй номер? Третий чистой воды

Тимми(Данкан, если что) везде пишется тяжем. От этого перестает он быть центром?

Достаточно посмотреть четвертьфинал Запада 2006 года, когда Боуэн делал тщетные попытки защищаться против Бонзи и Артеста, чтобы понять никакой он ни СФ. Точнее будет сказать, Брюс не форвард, он свингмен. А Баттье как раз форвард.

Принс и Артест защищаются на двух компонентах: для Тая это скорость и длина рук, для Рона это скорость и сила. Защищаются они по-разному, но физически они способны защищаться против форвардов, а Боуэн - нет.

То, что Баттье очень хороший защитник, понятно из простейшего умозаключения:

Газоль+Баттье+остальные Гризз+Бонзи = ПО

Газоль+остальные Гризз+Гей = подвал Лиги

Баттье - посредственный игрок атаки, средний рибаундер, в чем-то же он должен быть хорош!

[roll 0]

Бовен в целом научился, если не останавливать, то очень сильно мешать и большим игрокам вроде новицки, хотя конечно его конек - игра на ногах как Жиль и сказал - с нереактивными или нетяжелыми 1-3

Изменено 18.03.2008 20:47 пользователем roll

[old-timer 6]

Бэт - это СФ, способный оперировать с не очень подвижными СГ и негабаритными тяжами

Ну с этим я в корне не соглашусь. Бэт персонально и очень даже удачно опекал таких игроков Как Дуэйн Уэйд, Рип Хемилтон, Коби Брайант, Ману Жинобили, Винс Картер, список можно продолжать и продолжать. Больших Бэт не опекает в принципе, исключением могут быть игроки плана Барьяни.

[Sanchoys 0]

да и ваще-ты хоть постоянно и со смайликом-но достал уже везде своего Принса лепить))

тут и Боуэн,и Батье имхо гораздо лучше...

а у тебя как тема про защиту-ПРИНС ЛУЧШИЙ))

А ты его видел? А ты попробуй опровергнуть. Мне вот обидно, что Бэта суют повсюду, уже на каждом углу про него трещат, притом не по делу, а про Принса, который в персоналке уже который год лучший(ну хорошо, один из лучших), никто и словом не обмолвился. А все потому что на форуме полно гиперактивных ортодоксальных болел Хьюстона типа тебя. Я со смайликом везде пишу про Принса и в основном в ответ на вашего Бэта, а вы без смайликов пишете и везде. Достали

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/emoticons/default_laugh.gif" alt="ГЫ"> Изменено 19.03.2008 02:51 пользователем Sanchoys

[Sanchoys 0]

но я нигде неговорю как он про Принса,что наш Бэт лучше!))

Это чье в теме на главном форуме? Мне даже искать долго не пришлось - сразу на глазах.

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но тут опрос про защиту!

ГОУ БАТЬЕ,ГОУ!

Ю маст шат ап КБ24 ин тудэйс ивнинг матчап)))

Хотя я в общем-то не против, дело ваше, пишите

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[clyde 438]

а чем Принц то лучше?

[old-timer 6]

а чем Принц то лучше?

тем что в Детроите играет)))

[Sanchoys 0]

Ну именно в плане персоналки он лучше, ИМХО, классом повыше. Побыстрее, руки подлиннее, думает в защите быстрее.